(no subject)

[violachic]

I know this is going to sound really harsh, and I know that there are people who will disagree with me, but I very firmly believe that in this day and age, with the number of children out there who desperately need good homes, it is downright unethical for people to have eighteen natural-born children. If every child is a blessing, why can't you go adopt a dozen or so who already exist?

Comments

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

On the other hand, given some of the sleaze in the adoption system, that's not ideal, either.

I'm not just talking about the foul stuff Madonna and Angelina Jolie do -- I'm talking about buying babies here (after Pregnancy Crisis Center came to my daughter's school, it was if they were trolling for white infants), or the sick foster care system that makes money ripping apart families. In Iowa, they don't give mom and dad much support to get on their feet and get their kids back, and why should they?

Cultures are still being destroyed on a perfectly legal market of human flesh. It's a no-win situation.

[disappearinjon.livejournal.com]

Well, I absolutely don't disagree with you, but it's also not as though there are a lot of healthy infants up for adoption -- as the recent revelations in re third-world adoptions demonstrate.

And, sad as it may be, adopting a child older than three or four years old is usually much more challenging due to the trauma caused by the reasons the child is up for adoption.

Still, eighteen is insane and selfish. No argument there.

[tanyad.livejournal.com]

Agree with you, and I don't think it sounds harsh at all.

[misslynn.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, that anonymous comment was me, I meant to log in. Oops.

[rennie-frog.livejournal.com]

I agree with you too, but arguing with them would be like arguing with a wall. As far as they're concerned, it's god's will, and that's that.

[j00j.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the adoption system is kind of broken, ethics-wise, too... But in any case I just can't imagine anyone being able to devote sufficient attention to that many children, even if they had the financial resources to care for them well. And given the strain overpopulation places on the environment, I'd argue that the planet doesn't have the resources. But then, I'm biased-- I don't want to have children. Would rather help spoil others'.

Also, she must be very dedicated to have gone through childbirth that many times, and *three c-sections*. One of my friends is recovering from delivering her first child-- 30 hours of labor followed by c section. Urgh.

[ironheadjane.livejournal.com]

But you see, if GOD wants you to not have 18 children, he'd make your womb shrivel up so you were not able to. Because, (as I read on a FOAF's LJ info page), every conception is meant to be by God. Also, as Pastor Rick Warren says, there is no such thing as an unwanted child. Every child is wanted by God.

Of course, the adverse of this is if you have infertility issues, it's because God has chosen you not to breed (though I hear a lot less from the people who are anti-choice being anti-fertility treatment.)

My opinion is that children, in many cases these days, have less to do with people caring and loving that child into adulthood, and more to do with pure narcissism. The Baby Industrial Complex, and the Cult of Motherhood, that I so passionately loathe, are more wrapped up in the business and the narcissistic, egocentric experience of having a child that it's no longer about caring for a separate, unique human being, but about tending to the "inner child" of the parents.

I really didn't have any idea of how sick the BIC/CoM was until a friend of mine (IRL/Internet friend) went through exhaustive amounts of fertility treatments over multiple years, ending in IVF and the birth of two babies. By watching her journal, and her FOAF journals when they'd comment, I was just horrified. Babies were the latest accessory items in a commercial oriented lifestyle. The mothers' comments and posts reflected more what they expected their babies to do for them, than what they expected to do for/with the babies.

Having 18 kids (like the CoM/BIC people) is about doing something because you can, not because you should.

Well if YOU'RE not going to be harsh...

[yellow-p.livejournal.com]

[robling-t.livejournal.com]

Added one of her daughters, “It’s like having a live baby doll.

Okay, um... NO. Just... NO. *headdesk* I want to see at least a couple of those kids grow up to write tell-all books or I'm going to be really cross.

[grahamwest.livejournal.com]

You're completely right from a utilitarian point of view, but I don't think many families look at having children primarily in that way and for many people it doesn't even come into the decision (see ironheadjane below).

[girly123.livejournal.com]

I don't like the Quiverfull movement in any way, shape or form, but I can't find it within myself to tear the Dugger's a new asshole like the rest of the internet seems intent on doing. I think this is in large part due to the fact that I'm rabidly pro-choice, and it really of bewilders me to see similarly pro-choice people trying to dictate how often the Duggars are allowed to procreate.

Whether it's eighteen children or eighteen abortions, what a woman decides to do with her uterus and whatever happens to be inside it at the moment is her business, and hers alone. There are a lot of legitimate negative issues surrounding their children and the way they're raised, but deciding to have that many children in and of itself is not one of them.

I also find it uproariously hilarious to see self-identified feminists making ridiculously sexist comments about the size of her vagina, but that's another argument for another day.

[violachic.livejournal.com]

Philosophically, I want to agree with you- I really, really do. I just keep coming back to anger about the number of children who, for whatever reason, don't have a home- in a country where conservatives constantly rail against abortion, so many times the same people will not give proper care to those children who already exist. I'm aware this is an emotional reaction. I'm not sure how to reconcile that with philosophy.

[anansi133.livejournal.com]

My right-wing impulse is to say, "damn straight! Legal limits for anything beyond 2 children who survive adolsecense!" or something like that.

My left-wing impulse is to say, "yeah, that's gross, but it would be even grosser to try to regulate that from above"

Somewhere in the middle, there's a voice that's concerned we're not doing everything we can to make it practical to raise a reasonably-sized family into a reasonable lifestyle.

I hear from a lot of secretly (or not so secretly) anti-child people, who would rather play than raise kids, and would rather their attention not go toward anything having to do with children. I wish we could have a larger discussion in this country about civics, and what it means to give a shit about other people's children.

[violachic.livejournal.com]

I hear you, on all counts.