(no subject)

[violachic]

I want to share this AlterNet article about how religious folks can be good allies to athiests. I think it is a great article, and well worth reading.

Comments

[tanyad.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link... I shared it on FB.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

Eh, I don't like the "you have to put up with us even when we're intolerant assholes" vein running through it.

(And I am married to one. And if he ever talked to me like the article did, or many other atheists have spoken to me, he'd be out a wife and family right now.)

Some good points, but a lot of attitude in it. I give people respect anyways, but it's not a very respectful piece. I've seen worse, of course.

[bloodredrosev.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for posting this. I probably should have written a post about this when it happened, but I had a really unpleasant experience at my church recently. :) I realize, this does require a little bit of backstory - you probably already know this, but I do go to church, even though I don't consider myself to be a Christian. I go for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with believing in God, and I certainly still consider myself to be a good, moral person. It's weird, I know, and will probably require more explanation down the road. It's complicated.

Anyway, I go to Grace Cathedral, a local Episcopal church - it's such a welcoming congregation, a place I feel comfortable even knowing that I don't share 100% of their beliefs. Grace's credo is that they are "a house of prayer, worship and service for everyone, welcoming all who seek an inclusive community of love."

A few weekends ago, they had a guest speaker deliver the sermon - and it was an ugly one, specifically railing against atheists in the most unkind way possible. It was real fire and brimstone stuff at some points. He made gross generalizations, promoted every myth and stereotype. I was stunned, sat there crying. It's the first time in the couple of years I've been going to Grace that I actually felt unwelcome.

I thought about not going back. But the rant delivered that day was so out of character for Grace, and I don't think it was representative of their overall message. And I really want to support them, the community, and their mission. So I am going to keep going, but I did at least feel compelled to write a letter.

Am I wrong to think that "welcoming everyone" should include even atheists who are reconsidering their position on faith?

[ironheadjane.livejournal.com]

Awesome. Thanks for posting.

[ironheadjane.livejournal.com]

I had a long response, but I'll put it simply:

"you have to put up with us even when we're intolerant assholes."

You mean, how atheists have to put up with the proselytizing of individuals from streetcorners to public squares, political arenas, TV - especially during the Christmas holiday season?

Many atheists see the vocal believes as nothing BUT intolerant assholes - and I think this article tries to, and does quite moderately and reasonably, lay out how atheists are marginalized, and need allies, and how our wish for discussion about OUR beliefs (or lack thereof) in the open marketplace, should be considered just as valid (and those who do the same vocally on the religious side) just as offensive.

It's really just that standard of wanting equal treatment. Religious folks are not a minority, but if you hear them squealing on TV about when their xmas trees are joined by an atheist statement on a state capitol, you'd think that THEY are the minority.

[violachic.livejournal.com]

The Episcopalian church I used to go to (I think Episcopalians are awfully good at this, and do it more often and better than other denominations) is really awesome (I mean really, they have a long-haired daschund (http://www.allsaintschicago.org/staff.php) on staff), and included in the congregation is a woman who is an athiest. Her daughter and ex-husband are part of the church, and she continues to attend, and be active in the congregation because she loves the sense of community there. I think that any time someone in the pulpit decides to tell everyone who is "going to hell" and why, they will alienate people who are there for whatever reason. I have more thoughts on this, but I'm having a hard time focusing right now.